Ted Leung on the air
Ted Leung on the air: Open Source, Java, Python, and ...
Ted Leung on the air: Open Source, Java, Python, and ...
Fri, 20 Aug 2004
Edd can blame Ted Tso
Edd Dumbill is on a mission to get people to use Linux and other free software on notebooks (apparently, he was unhappy about the number of Powerbooks at OSCON). When I started at OSAF, I was seriously in love with the IBM T40p series machines. But when I started Googling (google: thinkpad t40 linux), I found large number of pages that described building custom kernels and madwifi drivers and so on. When I got to Ted Tso's T40 page, I decided that I would pass on a Linux notebook for this round of machine.
Last week when I was at OSAF I saw Ducky's new T41. Her box is running Gentoo and the wireless card was working. However, power management (sleep/hibernate) was not. But the combination of the machine and Edd's post got me thinking about it again.
I like the Powerbook. The software is great, but the hardware is mediocre. I feel that the processor is underpowered, the screen resolution is less than I would like, and the battery life of 2:30 is poor compared to today's Centrino based notebooks.
Here's a list of things that would need to happen in order for me to look seriously at a Linux powered notebook:
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- Support for recent hardware (Pentium M + 802.11 a/b/g)
- Good power management (fast hibernate and fast sleep/wakeup)
- Something that works with iChat A/V: I love e-mail and IM/IRC as much as the next open source guy, but using the iSight really makes a difference
- Something like SubEthaEdit: in combination with audio/video chat, this really makes it easy to debug problems live.
- Something like Launchbar/Quicksilver: These launchers are just so good
- A really good RSS reader
I think every reasonable person knows that the reason why Linux doesn't work perfectly with the hardware on most laptops is strongly related to one reason why Apple aren't likely to ever release Mac OS X for Intel: it's the reluctance of various hardware and component vendors to bother supporting anything other than Windows.
Obviously, some major systems vendor is eventually going to bite the bullet and actually chase up those Taiwanese original equipment manufacturers and/or get coding in order to support Linux properly on their laptop offerings, but HP's recent announcement of a not-totally-capable laptop still demonstrates their (and other vendors') willingness to perpetuate the misguided belief that it's up to Mr Torvalds and associates to reverse-engineer and hack up hardware support in their own (or their employers) time so that end-users may then install over the copy of Windows XP that they didn't want in the first place.
Posted by Paul Boddie at Fri Aug 20 07:08:01 2004
Obviously, some major systems vendor is eventually going to bite the bullet and actually chase up those Taiwanese original equipment manufacturers and/or get coding in order to support Linux properly on their laptop offerings, but HP's recent announcement of a not-totally-capable laptop still demonstrates their (and other vendors') willingness to perpetuate the misguided belief that it's up to Mr Torvalds and associates to reverse-engineer and hack up hardware support in their own (or their employers) time so that end-users may then install over the copy of Windows XP that they didn't want in the first place.
Posted by Paul Boddie at Fri Aug 20 07:08:01 2004
It's hard to wait for things like this. I'd love to have a "modern" notebook running Linux without me putting in a lot of effort becoming a guru on wifi and power management configuration.
There are some neat projects working on advancing hardware management and configuration in Linux. I think it's just a matter of time and many of these issues will go away...
to be replaced with new ones! w00t!
In the meantime, I have Windows XP on my "modern" notebook and I have Linux running on my circa 1998 Dell Inspiron (runs great).
Posted by will at Fri Aug 20 08:18:44 2004
There are some neat projects working on advancing hardware management and configuration in Linux. I think it's just a matter of time and many of these issues will go away...
to be replaced with new ones! w00t!
In the meantime, I have Windows XP on my "modern" notebook and I have Linux running on my circa 1998 Dell Inspiron (runs great).
Posted by will at Fri Aug 20 08:18:44 2004
Allegedly the airo driver in kernel 2.6.8(.1) works now, but I haven't had a chance to try it on my T40 yet. But yeah, I know the feeling -- for years, I've been right past the edge of where Linux "Just Works". Other than the T40 nightmare, I got a NetVista and tried to install Debian on it. Network card is an e1000, which is supported in kernel 2.4.20. At the time, the official Debian netinst comes with... kernel 2.4.19. Argh.
Yes, I know about http://www.linuxmafia.com/faq/Debian/installers.html and one of the custom boot CDs worked fine on the NetVista. That's not the point. This has been happening for years. New hardware, combined with my expectations of what a computer should be able to do (which now includes wireless and power management and so forth) conspire to make Linux a headache year after year.
Posted by Mark at Fri Aug 20 13:52:31 2004
Yes, I know about http://www.linuxmafia.com/faq/Debian/installers.html and one of the custom boot CDs worked fine on the NetVista. That's not the point. This has been happening for years. New hardware, combined with my expectations of what a computer should be able to do (which now includes wireless and power management and so forth) conspire to make Linux a headache year after year.
Posted by Mark at Fri Aug 20 13:52:31 2004
I dunno if it'll help Ducky or not, but on an IBM T21 running Gentoo, I never did get acpi working, but apm worked the first time, and I get VERY quick sleep/resume now.
Also, the laptop_mode scripts keep the HD off most of the time and seem to significantly extend the battery life: http://www.xs4all.nl/~bsamwel/laptop_mode/tools/index.html
Take care,
-Brian
Posted by Brian Dorsey at Fri Aug 20 15:15:27 2004
Also, the laptop_mode scripts keep the HD off most of the time and seem to significantly extend the battery life: http://www.xs4all.nl/~bsamwel/laptop_mode/tools/index.html
Take care,
-Brian
Posted by Brian Dorsey at Fri Aug 20 15:15:27 2004
gentoo works great on a powerbook ;-)
i've got it working with hardware acceleration (ati mobility), suspend/resume, lots of goodness.
and i even got chandler working on it.
Posted by hazmat at Thu Aug 26 19:40:53 2004
i've got it working with hardware acceleration (ati mobility), suspend/resume, lots of goodness.
and i even got chandler working on it.
Posted by hazmat at Thu Aug 26 19:40:53 2004
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