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Wed, 08 Jun 2005

More parents must grow up - music lessons

Abigail is getting old enough to be ready for some music lessons. Actually, some people would say that she's getting started a little bit late -- more on that in a bit. We're planning to start her on the piano, and a friend of ours who is herself a good pianist recommended a teacher. The teacher prefers the students to be a little older before starting them, and Abigail is close to that preferred age. So on Saturday, I took Abigail over to the teacher's house to sit in on a student recital.

The students spanned ages 8-18 and the selections included Chopin Nocturnes, Liszt's La Campanella, and a Prelude and Fugue from The Well Tempered Klavier. Abigail sat very quietly and seemed quite interested in what was going on, particularly when the younger students were playing. I was very impressed with what I heard and also with what I saw. Despite the fact that some of her students have gone on to a very high level, I didn't get the sense that the players felt in a pressure cooker, and a number seemed to be enjoying the pieces that they were playing.

It was fun, enjoyable, and the music was good. It also brought back memories of my own musical endeavors: some piano lessons when I was young, a few years of violin lessons, a hiatus until late in high school, and a humanities concentration in music as an undergraduate. As I sat, I found myself in the grip of parental aspirations -- wanting Abigail to really enjoy music, hoping that she might reach the level of some of the students (I was particularly impressed with the 17 year old who played La Campanella). I realized that I was going to have to curb my own (well meaning) desires for my girls. It is easy for parents to get super invested in having their kids succeed at something, whether that be sports, music, or academics, and there's a fine line between the role of a parent helping a child to learn discipline or to push through a difficult spot, and a parent driving a child for the parent's sake as opposed to the child's.

I'm also shaped by my own childhood musical hiatus. I was the one who wanted to stop the violin lessons, a decision which I now (of course) regret. I think that part of what happened there was that I just didn't see the big picture of what was happening. I didn't like the practicing, and I wasn't that good. I didn't have the counterweight of hearing lots of classical music and the inspiration that it might have provided to pull me through the difficulties of practicing. One thing that we are trying to do at home is to expose our kids to lots of music and different kinds of music. The ability to check out CD's of music from the local library is a huge resource -- it gives you access to a repertoire that you'd be hard pressed to assemble on your own. Today when I came out of my office for dinner, the first thing that happened was that Elisabeth looked up from the dinner table and announced "I like Jazz" (it me a moment to understand what she had said). Julie and the girls came home from the library with some new CD's.

Back to the piano lessons. Pianos represent a significant financial investment, and I've been trying to read up on the pros and cons of pianos (new and used) and digital pianos (the teacher said that we should look for weighted keyboard action if we went that route). If there are any readers out there with opinions or experience in this area, I would be grateful for a comment (or two).

[00:10] | [education] | # | TB | F | G | 20 Comments |

I bet you'd get 50/50 answers on the digital vs. acoustic thing, but to me the feeling of playing a real acoustic piano is never matched by the digital ones. Just being surrounded by the sound (from an instrument that is maybe taller than you) makes a big difference in the experience.

One thing that we sometimes did when my kids were younger was opening the bottom of the piano to play the strings directly with our hands, with the pedal down to have them all resonate. They loved the instrument even more after that ;-)

Digitals are cheaper and require no maintenance, which makes quite a difference over time, but if you go this route the weighted keyboard is very important so that your kids won't be lost if they get to play on an acoustic later on.

Over here we can rent acoustics at decent prices, it's often a good option to start with.
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz at Wed Jun 8 00:53:47 2005

I agree with Bertrand. There's something really cool about a real piano. They are a bit loud and the whole family must put up with the sounds of lessons (mostly sounds at first, very little music). But the sound that a real piano produces is just so awesome. My grandma could pound out a tune that would make the whole room shake.

You just can't help but open one up, reach in and pluck the strings. I have always been intrigued by the mechanics of the piano. When I was a kid, we had an old player piano. Most of the player parts where missing but you could still open the door down below and pump the pedals that used to provide the power.

You should eventually encourage your kids to play their instruments with other people. I think playing as part of a group will improve their experience. It could turn a parent-induced chore into a social activity. Plus, it will help them learn to keep pace with others and be a lot more fun than a metronome. Also, it could lead to playing in the high school jazz band, the choir at church, or the latest techo pop band. :)
Posted by Ed Hager at Wed Jun 8 02:03:01 2005

I strongly agree that you should avoid a digital piano. A used spinet is perfectly adequate, even for an adult; you can get one for $600 in most areas. (Of course, a grand is nicer, but art can be made with less.) With a real piano there is a direct physical connection between the energy you put in and what you get out; mediating that connection with a circuit breaks a natural intimacy with the instrument that you want to cultivate when you are learning.
Posted by Jacob at Wed Jun 8 05:39:56 2005

Conveying child's attention and discipline is one difficult task (largely varying with the "parenting knowledge" of the parents and the propensities of the child of course). Music is one great way of teaching discipline.

The biggest problem for me (too) is to detect that fine line (that you emphasize) between helping the child and playing out one's own psychological threads ("all parents want quite strongly that their children to accomplish what they weren't able to, for whatever reason" they say).

It is particulary difficult to know at what moment to decide that the child has already chosen and thus let her be with her choice, especially at earlier ages (8-12).

I'm still searching solutions for this difficult problem.
Posted by Inorog at Wed Jun 8 05:41:45 2005

My dad's been a piano teacher all his life, and we have a nice hand-me-down upright Steinway in our household now.

One of the advantages of a digital piano that my dad told me about, but didn't really think about is that you can play it with headphones. That means that the piano can be in a common area of the house without disturbing others as you practice.

In his opinion, the action of the better digital pianos are remarkably close to acoustic pianos. If you don't play, however, it can be difficult to tell so you might want to ask your new piano teacher if they'll come along to give you an opinion.
Posted by John Lam at Wed Jun 8 05:46:28 2005

If you're going to buy a piano (used or new), I highly recommend reading "The Piano Book: Buying & Owning a New or Used Piano" by Larry Fine. It gives a thorough description of how pianos work, and what to look for when purchasing one.

I recently just bought a used piano, and it was an invaluable resource.
Posted by Tom Offermann at Wed Jun 8 07:58:13 2005

I'm not sure I agree about the metaphysics of energy connection (see Jacob's comment). Of course, the acoustic is the real thing, and the digital will always just be an imitation.

Nonetheless, I think it may be a good choice for learning, if one cannot afford the cost and maintenance of a good acoustic. Do not forget the convenience of being able to practice without upsetting the whole family, by using the aforementioned headphones.

The digital had better be good, too. I have owned many of them, and swear by Yamaha ones. The P60 and P90 models have a good sound, and an excellent keyboard. Previous models had a not good enough sound for classical music. The other brands, forget most of them.
Posted by Nicola Larosa at Wed Jun 8 07:58:57 2005

I have some expertise in this area, the son of an absolutely knock-your-socks-off musician and music teacher; dad has a Gerard Heinztman grand piano that his (rather poor) father bought for him and had rebuilt for him. It's now a little over a century old, and it's the piano I spent a decade of my life learning on.

While I've had the experience of playing some very good digital pianos (technology has advanced greatly and gotten much cheaper since I was a young lad), even the best weighted action DPs still feel artificial. I'm convinced that students who learn on digital pianos don't have the same "feel" for the dynamics of the real honest-to-god instrument, and when observing a recital, the difference between those who learned on the real thing and the simulation is noticeable to a nuanced observer. Nevertheless, the headphones option mentioned by a previous commenter is attractive to some.

If you do purchase a piano, grand or upright, it obviously is a big investment, not only in terms of purchase but in terms of subsequent maintenance. You should expect to have it tuned at least every six months, but more frequently in the first year or two as it settles. You should put it in a place where you can carefully control the humidity and temperature, probably via the use of a humidifier; dry air during a harsh winter (I'm not sure if this is a problem where you live) can have a rather devastating effect on the tuning and timbre of the sound. I've seen many a fine piano wrecked by even a short period (several years) of neglect.

As for brands, Steinway and Baldwin are all safe bets; slightly towards the lower end of the price spectrum, Kawai pianos seem to have a solid reputation, as do Yamaha. As with any purchase, be very weary of used merchandise. I haven't read the Piano Book myself but I've heard great things about it.
Posted by David Warde-Farley at Wed Jun 8 12:48:19 2005

Ditto on the Larry Fine book.

I have two recommendations:

First, I'd take a look at the Charles Walter pianos. I've had my Walter upright for five years and love it. Can't say enough good things about it.

Second, I'd look into the Suzuki method of instruction.
Posted by Mike Coyle at Wed Jun 8 13:38:49 2005

Another vote for Larry Fine's book. I also really like the Charles Walter pianos.

I've had a Kurzweil digital for several years and I love it (headphones rock) but there is no substitute for feeling the wood vibrate under your fingers.

A used piano can be an incredible value but you really have to know your stuff to get a deal.
Posted by Dan Sickles at Wed Jun 8 19:17:33 2005

well, this one's quickly being beaten to death but I'll chime in since I'm of a contrary opinion:

I think a digital keyboard with full-sized, weighted-action keys that are velocity-sensitive and aftertouch-sensitive provides an excellent piano substitute. The multi-sampled ones (where they've recorded each string at different volume levels) provide a sound rivaling any ancient $600 upright you're likely to find. It may be a "slightly" different experience, but for a beginner starting out we're not talking the nuances that Horowitz could elicit.
And those headphones will be an advantage, although you'll probably want to monitor her practices too (if my own experience is a guide.)
Plus, you can hook it to your Mac and use it to drive GarageBand - and there are other applications out there designed for learning, composing, printing and recording music.

If Abigail proves to be interested enough to play more than a year, consider then buying however big a piano your house & budget can handle. You can then move the electronic one to her room or just hook it up to the computer and use it for composition and recording.

(I learned on an old upright, and it was fine, but huge. Spinets are more my size now, but good ones seem to be around $3K.)
Posted by rick at Thu Jun 9 10:29:47 2005

Ted, we met at Northern Voice here in Vancouver, and I'll probably see you at Gnomedex later this month (my wife and kids are coming down to Seattle as well), but I wanted to note that I have a page outlining the process we went through to get a digital piano for our daughters (5 and 7 now) to learn on. While I'm not a pianist, I've played music professionally for over 15 years, so I was reasonably thorough. :)

While it's true that a digital model cannot duplicate the experience of playing a genuine acoustic piano, newer models come quite close enough for learning, and have a number of advantages (headphones, no tuning, other sounds, computer interface, being able to move them single-handed, much lower price).

I'd recommend a good digital "stage piano" (i.e. for gigging musicians, rather than a decorative model with extra frou-frou for the living room set): the Yamaha P series in particular, Roland RD or F series, Korg SP series, or some of the other models I discuss on my page. If your kids go on to study piano more seriously, an acoustic model will probably become necessary, but it's worth waiting some years before considering a purchase like that which could cost as much as a nice car.

If you want to talk about it in Seattle, I'll be at the conference. But beware: I can go on and on about the subject.
Posted by Derek at Sat Jun 11 23:37:33 2005

I think a really good digital is a reasonable choice for a beginning piano player. The headphone option is great. The maintenance issues are likely to make you a more sane parent.

I agree that once you've reached an intermediate level, I've never encountered a digital (and I've played a lot of them) that could compare with a decent baby grand in expressiveness. I don't think you have to get metaphysical to argue that having vibrations travel through your fingers and your toes and the piano bench is a really different experience from playing a digital.

But until Abigail has played for a year or two, I wouldn't invest in a baby grand :). Of course, you do have other daughters, given their parents I'm sure one of them will adore the piano!
Posted by Jeffrey Harris at Tue Jun 14 18:09:03 2005

Thanks everybody for all the comments.

Derek, I'd love to talk to you at Gnomedex. I tried to mail you, but your ISP doesn't like my mailserver...
Posted by Ted Leung at Wed Jun 15 18:52:14 2005

I come from a very musical family myself, and being a young father wanting to foster a musical environment myself, I am starting to look at some of the very same questions you are. My kids are younger than yours and being more of a jazz man myself, i have a slightly different outlook on this than some others that have posted. I beleive that tradition is the key to innovation in music, meaning that you must understand the roots before you can go out on your own and clear new paths. People learning on a digital instrument will have difficult time understanding there roots, and understanding the magic that Duke Ellington, or Count Basie felt for their instruments. I know from a guitar perspective, it's very difficult to learn anything other than rock music on an electric guitar because you just dont get the feel of playing jazz or classical the way it was played by the greats, on a good archtop or acoustic guitar. As far as the headphones arguement goes. Unless you are living in an apartment with paper thin walls, it shouldn't even be an issue. It gives the impression, "I dont want to hear you until your good." If you truely want a musical family, you must foster it through good times and bad, so you can give encouragement and you daughters will be able to learn off of each other. Music should be encouraged as fun, which mistakes definantly can be.
Posted by Andrew Bushaw at Sat Jun 18 08:24:01 2005

Staying out of the artistic debate, I want to say how great piano lessons are. They encourage persistence and a can-do attitude when faced with a task that is not so easy that a really clever child can quickly conquer it.
Posted by Betsy Devine at Tue Jun 21 17:34:21 2005

i wanna buy digital piano. What is the best choice for me? my max budget is about 500 US$. Please help me. I'm also considering the used one.
Posted by eMiRov at Tue Oct 18 00:19:38 2005

i wanna buy digital piano. What is the best choice for me? my max budget is about 500 US$. Please help me. I'm also considering the used one.
Posted by eMiRov at Tue Oct 18 00:20:44 2005

On acoustic versus digital pianos, I recently invested in a Kawai CP205 digital grand piano and I am very impressed with the action which is based on wooden keys and hammers and full weighted action like any well-made acoustic piano. This has two outlets for headphones as well as the ability to record straight on to CD which is built in. Even the grand piano sound can be adjusted to sound like a Yamaha with lots of edge, or a studio piano or a more mellow sound. The touch can be regulated by the player too. I had a concert pianist recently play it who said that he found it easier to play than some of the great grands with well-known brand names. Go check this out. It will blow you away.
JT
Posted by John Tolman at Sat Apr 1 14:47:55 2006

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