Ted Leung on the air
Ted Leung on the air: Open Source, Java, Python, and ...
Ted Leung on the air: Open Source, Java, Python, and ...
Sun, 05 Oct 2003
Are we just talking to nobody?
Lemonodor has a post and comments on
Smug-lisp-weenie-ism. I hope that my postings haven't fallen into that category. I've been trying to keep the posts educational, although I know I haven't always succeeded.
I do think that there are some valid points in the comments:
[23:42] |
[computers/programming/lisp] |
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5 Comments |
- There are too many Lisps/Schemes/etc.
- It would be better to show cool programs/applications
GOO was also announced (as 'proto') at LL1, there is an actual implementation available for download:
http://www.ai.mit.edu/~jrb/goo/goo.htm
I find it odd, however, that it appears to lack a socket interface...
Posted by Marc Ramsey at Mon Oct 6 00:43:54 2003
http://www.ai.mit.edu/~jrb/goo/goo.htm
I find it odd, however, that it appears to lack a socket interface...
Posted by Marc Ramsey at Mon Oct 6 00:43:54 2003
I agree that one Lisp to rally around would help tremendously. As you point out, look at the advances made in Python.
My view is biased towards the "corporate" world where 90% of desktops and 50% of servers are Windows.
In this world-view Allegro is fairly useful but so expensive as to rule it out. LispWorks does not have enough (great UI building, easy COM interop. etc.) at its "reasonable" price. Corman has almost no features beyond basic Lisp. The CLISP community seems to reject Windows (at least Sam Steingold does), and CMUCL, SBCL and others are windows-NOT.
As you say -- roll on Arc (but it too will likely have thin Windows support for many years).
PLT Scheme maybe? Or maybe we wait for Python to complete its inevitable morph into (real) Lisp?
Posted by Alex Peake at Mon Oct 6 16:12:58 2003
My view is biased towards the "corporate" world where 90% of desktops and 50% of servers are Windows.
In this world-view Allegro is fairly useful but so expensive as to rule it out. LispWorks does not have enough (great UI building, easy COM interop. etc.) at its "reasonable" price. Corman has almost no features beyond basic Lisp. The CLISP community seems to reject Windows (at least Sam Steingold does), and CMUCL, SBCL and others are windows-NOT.
As you say -- roll on Arc (but it too will likely have thin Windows support for many years).
PLT Scheme maybe? Or maybe we wait for Python to complete its inevitable morph into (real) Lisp?
Posted by Alex Peake at Mon Oct 6 16:12:58 2003
I think what Lisp needs to take off is a non-crippled free version with a good GUI builder, (CLIM?) compatible across Windows and Linux. Oh yes, easy to set up, no Cygwin stuff.
In an article or comment here, someone made mention that they preferred Python the language over Java, but with Eclipse doing so much for you that overall they were more productive in Java. Sometimes I get the same feeling about Common Lisp vs. Scheme. I prefer CL's multimethods, MOP and way of doing macros but PLT Scheme as an environment may make someone more productive overall.
Posted by Ralph Richard Cook at Tue Oct 7 07:35:18 2003
In an article or comment here, someone made mention that they preferred Python the language over Java, but with Eclipse doing so much for you that overall they were more productive in Java. Sometimes I get the same feeling about Common Lisp vs. Scheme. I prefer CL's multimethods, MOP and way of doing macros but PLT Scheme as an environment may make someone more productive overall.
Posted by Ralph Richard Cook at Tue Oct 7 07:35:18 2003
Marc, Goo has a sockets interface. Look at the module goo/io/net. Implemented in goo/io/net.goo and goo/io/%net.c. This works on both Linux and Windows.
Chris.
Posted by Chris Double at Tue Oct 7 16:42:02 2003
Chris.
Posted by Chris Double at Tue Oct 7 16:42:02 2003
I'm not sure how important it is to strive to promote "Lisp" per se. In my opinion, the important thing is to get the good ideas into the hands of people so that people can benefit from them. Getting a new language to catch on and take off is very, very hard. Let's get the good ideas publicized and into circulation so that when the next big language comes along, it'll be by people who have been exposed to the good ideas.
Posted by Dan Weinreb at Sat Dec 20 18:40:59 2003
Posted by Dan Weinreb at Sat Dec 20 18:40:59 2003
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